Sanitizer

[sam,rn]

Hi, so I am finally starting to brew beer after salivating over Midwest and Northern Brewer's catalogs for close to 2 years. I even got the wife on board and she is (almost) as excited as I am. She was not impressed, however, after we did our first batch and she found several bleach spots on her clothing. I know that products like StarSan and Saniclean work well, but I was wondering about a product that is carried by Sam's Club. It's called ProForce Sanitizer, comes in a 1 gallon jug, and retails for around $5. It dilutes to a 1 oz Proforce: 1 gallon water concentration, is odorless, and requires no rinsing. It is approved for use in dairies, so I figure that should work for home brewing purposes. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this product, or any thoughts on its use.
Thanks,
Sam

[brownbeard]

I've never used it, but you have peaked my curiosity. I use star san. I have been using the same 16 bottle for about 3 years. I never soak anything. I am a sprayer. I have a windex bottle and garden sprayer full of sanitizer. When you use it like that, it goes a long way.

[carrisr]

Does it list the ingredients? There are only so many chemicals approved for dairy use. What color is it? Is it black/brown? I may be an Iodine based product. Also to be labeled as a "sanitizer" narrows the field too as that requires certification.

[semanticdm]

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/proforc ... zer-77521/ has some discussion on it. The general result is... inconclusive.
Sounds like the main ingredient is either Ammonium Chloride, or some variant thereof.
A couple of people have mentioned off flavors / possibility of off flavors if not used properly, others have mentioned using it with blazing success.

[tompb]

First I'd skip the bleach for cleaning or sanitizing. It has to be rinsed, so it doesn't really work for the sanitizing part. Oxyclean or the generic equivilant works great for cleaning. Star-San works great for sanitizing and as mentioned goes a long way for the money. A spray bottle made with RO or de-ionized water will a long time. It also works for around the kitchen.

Keep her happy and keep on brewing!

[carrisr]

That's part of the problem with homebrewtalk.com and most forums...Mo matter the topic there are always strong advocates for both sides of the argument no matter what they are discussing. When there are established safe and worry free products (Starsan, Iodifor), why go with an unknown. A few things I'd be worried about:

-Off flavors
-Damage to metals such as stainless
-Does it kill lacto, wild yeasts, and other brewery bugs?

Like others, I mix up about 3 gallons of reverse osmosis water with a bit over 1/2 oz of Starsan. I keep some in a spray bottle, and the rest in a bucket. I use it for 4 or so batches. It probably keeps a lot longer than that but I'm too lazy to test it with pH strips. Don't reuse it, however, if you have hard water. CR water should be OK.

[sam,rn]

so, after reading all of the replies to my initial post, i've decided to play it safe and go the star-san route.
mr. brownbeard, you mentioned that you are a "sprayer." am i to understand that you mist your equipment after cleaning and prior to use? do you just let it dry and then use the equipment? that sounds much easier than what i've been doing, not to mention quicker and cleaner.
anyway, thanks to everyone for the great advice! i hope to make it to a meeting in the near future, assuming my work schedule permits.
thanks again,
sam

[TappedOut]

I use a spray-bottle too. W/ star-san, no need to let it dry. I pretty much just drain what will drain. My understanding it that is is primarily a food-grade acid (like in Coke) and the little remaining is insignificant when mixed w/ 5 gallons (or however much) of wort.

[brownbeard]

so, after reading all of the replies to my initial post, i've decided to play it safe and go the star-san route.
mr. brownbeard, you mentioned that you are a "sprayer." am i to understand that you mist your equipment after cleaning and prior to use? do you just let it dry and then use the equipment? that sounds much easier than what i've been doing, not to mention quicker and cleaner.
anyway, thanks to everyone for the great advice! i hope to make it to a meeting in the near future, assuming my work schedule permits.
thanks again,
sam

I keep a plastic tub or plastic cutting board wherever I am working, and spray it down with sanitizer. Then I mist my equipment, as I am using it, and if it needs to be set down, I put it on the cutting board or in the tub. My tub is one of those hospital tubs they have you puke in. I never do anything more than mist. Sometimes, I will just spray the kitchen counter down, and set sanitized spoons or whatever right on the sanitized counter.
The only things I sanitize after cleaning are fermenters. I sanitize all other equipment before use, not for storage. I never sanitize anything breboil or boil. No point.

[tompb]

so, after reading all of the replies to my initial post, i've decided to play it safe and go the star-san route.
mr. brownbeard, you mentioned that you are a "sprayer." am i to understand that you mist your equipment after cleaning and prior to use? do you just let it dry and then use the equipment? that sounds much easier than what i've been doing, not to mention quicker and cleaner.
anyway, thanks to everyone for the great advice! i hope to make it to a meeting in the near future, assuming my work schedule permits.
thanks again,
sam

I keep a plastic tub or plastic cutting board wherever I am working, and spray it down with sanitizer. Then I mist my equipment, as I am using it, and if it needs to be set down, I put it on the cutting board or in the tub. My tub is one of those hospital tubs they have you puke in. I never do anything more than mist. Sometimes, I will just spray the kitchen counter down, and set sanitized spoons or whatever right on the sanitized counter.
The only things I sanitize after cleaning are fermenters. I sanitize all other equipment before use, not for storage. I never sanitize anything breboil or boil. No point.

Yep. Hoses, fittings, even bottling. If I'm just doing a couple bottles they get a few sprays, 1 on the cap. The package says 5 minutes wet contact. The guy from 5-Star says 30 seconds is closer, but for FDA standards 5 minutes is approved.
Oh and "Don't fear the foam!"

[Matt F]

I have a 32 oz. bottle of Star San I got about 4 years ago. I am halfway through it now. I am a soaker. I have a 5 gallon batch of star san in the brewery at all times in a bucket with a lid made with CR tap water. There is a great podcast on Brew Strong about cleaning and sanitizing. When it gets cloudy I throw it out. If it is getting old, more than a few months and still clear, I test the PH to make sure it is still good. Been doing this process a long time and haven't detected a sanitation issue yet. Friendly on my peat based septic system too.

[kjball]

Tim, do you dilute it to the 1oz/5 gallon level for use in your sprayer?or do you use a different dilution? I typically soak and don't keep it around after the brew day. Which means I waste a lot.

[brownbeard]

Tim, do you dilute it to the 1oz/5 gallon level for use in your sprayer?or do you use a different dilution? I typically soak and don't keep it around after the brew day. Which means I waste a lot.

Yes I dilute. I usually only make a 2.5 gallon jug. And then I fill my spray bottles out of that. I keep a bottle in the kitchen too, just to sanitize around food preparation.

[TappedOut]

Yep, I dilute, too. I typically mix up only a 1 gallon jug. It might be a little stronger than recommended, but it's pretty close.

[DrPaulsen]

Same here, but I only mix up about 1 qt at a time, since that is the size of the sprayer I use.