collected yeast 2 weeks ago, starter question

brownbeard · Post by **brownbeard** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:02 pm

BrewHound wrote:
Matt F wrote:
DrPaulsen wrote: Another convert! Hooray for Science!
Just to double check as I plan to convert on my next starter. This method is simply mix DME with tap water and pitch yeast. Bam, yeast starter done!
just to mention it for those who are going to get into this. YOU HAVE TO SANITIZE THE CONTAINER. This is an additional step to conventional starters as with the conventional starter the container is sanitized by heat.

I always boiled my starter in a pot, and poured the cooled wort into my container. So, I was always sanitizing the container. But yes, you need to sanitize the container before mixing. That should take about 10 seconds with a spray bottle of sanitizer.

hoboscratch · Post by **hoboscratch** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:44 pm

ditto to the boil in the pot. Still good to point out in case someone is used to method A and on a whim tries method B. Once I was in a hurry and forgot to sanitize the inside of my siphon and hose as I was transferring from boil kettle to the primary. Luckily it all turned out ok.

BrewHound · Post by **BrewHound** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:04 pm

Guess that is a valid point if your container is heat sensitive, I have had an erlenmeyer Flask since I began making starters so have always just boild right in the erlenmeyer right on the stove.

tompb · Post by **tompb** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:36 pm

Just so you know, White Labs did some testing for a company that makes LME and DME. The cultures showed that LME is very clean, DME is not. If you are doing no boil starters with DME you are taking a risk. If you used LME instead you would be relatively safe. I don't remember the exact show or if I read it in HomeBoy and DogMeat's yeast book.

Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:50 pm

One of these days I would like to make some low gravity wort and can it. The canning process makes for clean wort. Just open a jar and pour it in a sanitized container with yeast.

BrewHound · Post by **BrewHound** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:52 am

Matt F wrote:One of these days I would like to make some low gravity wort and can it. The canning process makes for clean wort. Just open a jar and pour it in a sanitized container with yeast.

A lot of people I am seeing on boards are starting to over brew for this purpose. They plan an extra couple of gallons their brew and then can the low runnings at the end, which I don't like because that will throw your gravity. However, you can collect all then capture a couple of gallons and dilute to desired gavity without messing up your brew. This is on my list to do, but currently way down there after several other things, so most likely will be a year or so before I get around to doing this.

I may become a no boil starter convert, as I am lazy and that sounds much easier, and everyone else seems to get good results from it. Just don't know if I can do it without feeling all paranoid.

Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:05 pm

I had planned to do the same thing several times, especially with higher gravity beers. Problem is I keep brewing late at night/early morning and by the time I am finishing the brew session I lose motivation. One of these days.

johnnyik · Post by **johnnyik** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:47 pm

My method of repitching is working out really well. I make a slightly larger starter than I need and sanitize a White Labs vial. I then decant off spent starter wort down to about 200ML. Swirl to mix the yeast back into suspension then fill the vial first. Pitch the rest into your wort. The yeast settles out in the vial and is just a bit more than White Labs puts in so I figure I have around 120Billion cells stored in the fridge. I've let the vials stay in there for 3-4 months and they will start right up the next starter I make. Works great so far as the yeast has nutrients and starter-plate aeration so they grow healthy.

hoboscratch · Post by **hoboscratch** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:06 am

Smart move. That way the yeast isn't overstressed from high gravity beers or hops. I will be doing this for sure.

DrPaulsen · Post by **DrPaulsen** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:17 am

tompb wrote:Just so you know, White Labs did some testing for a company that makes LME and DME. The cultures showed that LME is very clean, DME is not. If you are doing no boil starters with DME you are taking a risk. If you used LME instead you would be relatively safe. I don't remember the exact show or if I read it in HomeBoy and DogMeat's yeast book.

I just heard JZ's comment about this in the Brew Strong episode on Kit Beers (http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/698). It was a qualitative statement that DME "probably isn't sterile" due to the non-filtered air being used in the DME production process. It's worth noting that Briess' website indicates that they used filtered air to make their DME (http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/About/ ... tPlant.htm), so the risk of contaminated DME from Briss is probably pretty low.

It's an interesting point and certainly worth noting when determing the Risk/Benefit ratio associatd with this technique. That being said, I'm going to keep doing this until I have a problem since the perceived benefit is much greater than the perceived risk.

tompb · Post by **tompb** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:14 pm

DrPaulsen wrote:
tompb wrote:Just so you know, White Labs did some testing for a company that makes LME and DME. The cultures showed that LME is very clean, DME is not. If you are doing no boil starters with DME you are taking a risk. If you used LME instead you would be relatively safe. I don't remember the exact show or if I read it in HomeBoy and DogMeat's yeast book.
I just heard JZ's comment about this in the Brew Strong episode on Kit Beers (http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/698). It was a qualitative statement that DME "probably isn't sterile" due to the non-filtered air being used in the DME production process. It's worth noting that Briess' website indicates that they used filtered air to make their DME (http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/About/ ... tPlant.htm), so the risk of contaminated DME from Briss is probably pretty low.

It's an interesting point and certainly worth noting when determing the Risk/Benefit ratio associatd with this technique. That being said, I'm going to keep doing this until I have a problem since the perceived benefit is much greater than the perceived risk.

I don't blame you. I just spent an hour making a liter starter. I'm just too paranoid not to boil.

tony b · Post by **tony b** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:24 am

Curious as to why it took so long. I'm usually done in less time than that.

One thing to help speed things up is that I only boil 1/2 the amount that I want (500 ml) and the second 500 ml is a water/ice mix in the flask. Knocks the combined temp down to about 120F right away. From there you can just put the flask under cold running water in the sink while initially aerating it. Add the yeast and off to the stir plate. Easy, peasy!

carrisr · Post by **carrisr** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:04 am

tony b wrote:Curious as to why it took so long. I'm usually done in less time than that.!

I just about bit my tongue clean off after reading that line!

brownbeard · Post by **brownbeard** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:17 am

carrisr wrote:
tony b wrote:Curious as to why it took so long. I'm usually done in less time than that.!
I just about bit my tongue clean off after reading that line!

Yep. Right there with ya.