Counterflow chiller question

kjball · Post by **kjball** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:56 am

I'm in the market for a new counterflow chiller, any recommendations?

Post by **JimPotts** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:20 am

Karl's got the chillzilla from NB. Works extremely well. Pricey, though.

It doesn't take up a whole lot of room, and it drops the temperature down to pitch-temps at pump-speed.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 9:56 AM, kjball <brew-equipment@crbeernuts.org (brew-equipment@crbeernuts.org)> wrote:

I'm in the market for a new counterflow chiller, any recommendations?

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DrPaulsen · Post by **DrPaulsen** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:40 am

http://morebeer.com/view_product/19533/ ... rt_Chiller

I have a Chillus Convolutus and love it. It works great and is easy to clean, even for paranoid folks like me. (I'm pretty sure you saw it in operation when we brewed the club RIS.)

The only negative comment I can offer is that it's a little bulky. Volumetrically speaking, it is not nearly as efficient as a plate chiller. From a water efficiency standpoint, I suspect it's on par with a Blichmann Therminator.

One positive feature of the unit that surprised me is the fact that it works very well without the need for hose clamps. 1/2" ID tubing will slide onto the wort tubes directly, and fit just tightly enough to stay in place and not leak. Also, I've never managed to clog it.

kjball · Post by **kjball** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:10 am

I guess my main question, price being equal, should I go with a plate or hose-style? How easy are the plate chillers to clean?

JimF · Post by **JimF** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:12 am

I've got a Blichman Therminator that works great. It cools to pitching temps (or lower) at pump speed. It is heavy but not too bulky. If I hadn't gotten a great deal, I probably would have gotten a Chillzilla.

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Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:17 am

I had your typical homemade counter flow years ago and then sold it to Lee. It worked fine but was just not fast enough. My hop flavor and aroma suffered when I switched to it from my immersion chiller. I have used the therminator and it is good.

For me, I really like my immersion chiller with the recirculation made popular by Jamil Z. It does some things you don't get with a counterflow. Jamil describes the benefits at this link.
http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php

You can make your own to save some bucks or buy one from More Beer.
http://morebeer.com/view_product/11905/ ... irculation

This is what I really like about mine.
1) It does the whirlpool for you, no more stirring the boil, leave a nice pile of hops, hot break and cold break in the middle of the boil kettle.
2) Reduced cold break in the fermentor, this gets left behind when you transfer to the fermentor. With counterflows and plate chillers, this stuff goes in the fermenter.
3) You chill the entire volume of the kettle very fast. You are not just cooling the wort that runs through the chiller, but it returns to the kettle and chills the entire volume very fast. I am under 100 F in just a few minutes. You can set up plate chillers and counterflows to do the same thing. This is nice as hops will still add bitterness until you get below 140F. The hot wort sitting in your kettle at 200+F towards the end of a counterflow transfer is still getting more bitter.
4) Cost less than the cool high-end counterflows and Therminator. If you already have an immersion chiller, it is only about a $10 upgrade you can make from the hardware store. If you were not going to buy a pump with a counterflow, you can get a pump and whirlpool immersion chiller for about the price of a counterflow/therminator by itself.
5) Easy cleaning and sanitizing. You don't have to worry about what's inside the chiller because it never touches beer. You put it in your boil kettle with 10 minutes left to go and start recirculating. The heat sanitizes the pump, tubing and recirculation pipe.
6) Won't clog, most people don't have that much trouble with this with other chillers, but it does happen.
7) You can stick it in your HLT and for no added cost, you just upgraded to a HERMS system.

JimF · Post by **JimF** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:34 am

I back flush mine with hot tap water until clear then hook up with pump and run PBW mix through it for a about 15-20 minutes. Then I run a StarSan mix through it for another 15-20 minutes. On Oct 10, 2011 12:10 PM, "kjball" <brew-equipment@crbeernuts.org (brew-equipment@crbeernuts.org)> wrote:

I guess my main question, price being equal, should I go with a plate or hose-style? How easy are the plate chillers to clean?

Bad people drink bad beer. You don't usually see an empty bottle of Rochefort tossed onto the side of the road

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Post by **JimPotts** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:02 pm

Karl pumps hot wort through his into a whirlpool attachment first, which sanitizes the chiller, and gives him a great whirlpool. Then he pumps out to primary. The chillzilla (and the chillus, which is pretty much the exact same) will easily keep up with the pump.

-Jim

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brownbeard · Post by **brownbeard** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:31 pm

JimF wrote:I back flush mine with hot tap water until clear then hook up with pump and run PBW mix through it for a about 15-20 minutes. Then I run a StarSan mix through it for another 15-20 minutes.

In that case, I am just as fast as you, with an immersion chiller. I can chill in less than 30 minutes, and I don't have to do all that cleaning.

JimF · Post by **JimF** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:51 pm

Probably. I'm multitasking while the pump runs. Airating wort, pitching yeast, general clean up, etc. On Oct 10, 2011 3:31 PM, "brownbeard" <brew-equipment@crbeernuts.org (brew-equipment@crbeernuts.org)> wrote:

JimF wrote: I back flush mine with hot tap water until clear then hook up with pump and run PBW mix through it for a about 15-20 minutes. Then I run a StarSan mix through it for another 15-20 minutes.

In that case, I am just as fast as you, with an immersion chiller. I can chill in less than 30 minutes, and I don't have to do all that cleaning.

You can't get with this with a bad hip - Matt

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Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:09 pm

n that case, I am just as fast as you, with an immersion chiller. I can chill in less than 30 minutes, and I don't have to do all that cleaning.[/quote]

And if you add recirculation to the immersion its about 10 minutes for 10 gallons. Even faster with ice water instead of tap water.

brownbeard · Post by **brownbeard** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:54 pm

Matt F wrote:n that case, I am just as fast as you, with an immersion chiller. I can chill in less than 30 minutes, and I don't have to do all that cleaning.

And if you add recirculation to the immersion its about 10 minutes for 10 gallons. Even faster with ice water instead of tap water.[/quote]
I will do this, if I ever decide to add a pump. And I am not doing that until I buy a house where I can set up a permanent indoor brewing rig.

Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:24 am

brownbeard wrote: I will do this, if I ever decide to add a pump. And I am not doing that until I buy a house where I can set up a permanent indoor brewing rig.

Permanent indoor brewing rigs are cool!

It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.

kjball · Post by **kjball** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:27 am

Alright, I made my choice... Matt, I really appreciate the input, and I'm not meaning any disrespect. So, I bought the counterflow chiller from Austin Homebrew supply and plan to use it to recirculate to do the whirlpool in the kettle. They also have fairly inexpensive camlock fittings. My plan is to set up a brew stand in the garage with my pump and propane burner. I plan to use my current immersion chiller as a HERMS with my HLT and heat stick with temp controller. I think I got all the pieces gathered for everything except the temp controller. I have 240V access in the garage, so I've got some building ahead of me. Thanks for all the input guys.

Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:34 am

No worries, none taken. If you are getting the camlocks they are cheaper from www.bargainfittings.com. Cheap $5 flat rate shipping too. Those guys are the ones that supply a lot of this stuff to the homebrew shops. They also have a $9 weldless connection for a heating element if you want to mount your heating element in your HLT instead of using a heat stick.

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