HERMS mashing

bf514921 · Post by **bf514921** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:11 pm

For those with a herms, how do you do your mashing. All the water in no sparge, do your steping. Normal mash thickness and then sparge?
Batch sparge half and half?
Just curious, i just finished my herms used it for one batch and killed my efficiency, well assuming i had any effficientcy. I just added all the water , mashed no sparge and circulated and moved my mash temperatures as desired.

Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:40 pm

Well cousin here is what I do. When doing step or single infusion, I mash in to hit my stike temp with 1.5 quarts of water per pound. I used a lower ratio of 1.3 quarts per pound before setting up my HERMS. I use more water now to allow for the needed extra fluid in the coil. It holds a lot of liquid. I set my HLT at the desired mash temperature and leave my pump running the entire time. That way I do not have to add another gadget to turn the pump on and off and I don't have to stand there and watch it. It is the same thing Tasty McDole does. When I want to raise the temperature for a step or to mash out I set the desired temp on the HLT and just let the pump keep running. I am getting efficiencies over 80% with this technique. My efficiency increased when I started to leave the pump on for the entire mash. Can't tell you why, just that it happened. I fly sparge so I feed water from the HLT by gravity and pump from the mashtun to the boil kettle. The water in the HLT is already at the right temperature because it was raised to mashout. I have had many configurations and this one has worked the best for me. I have had no problems pumping directly from the mashtun. The key for me to avoiding a stuck mash is use a lot of back pressure on your pump especially when you begin drawing wort from the mashtun. I also take at least an hour to sparge a typical 10 gallon batch. If you sparge too fast when fly-sparging it will kill your efficiency. Also, I am not big on obtaining a high efficiency. I just want to be around 75% for consistency.

bf514921 · Post by **bf514921** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:51 pm

i did my first herms batch made a scotch ale, missed my numbers by 10 points. first time i did a herms batch, i think part of the reason was i didn't really do a sparge of any kind. i just threw it all together and said, hell lets see what happens. i know what you mean about the "back pressure" my chugger likes more back pressure the warmer it gets. I was wondering about the mash thckness the most, sounds like you run about 1.5 quarts a pound. Thats usually where i was at. I only have a 20 foot coil, but it seams to be mor than enough to raise my mash temp.

bf514921 · Post by **bf514921** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:52 pm

do you circulate the water in your hlt ?

DrPaulsen · Post by **DrPaulsen** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:37 pm

I typically dough-in at around 2 qts/lb, depending on what will fit in my mash tun. If I'm aiming for a dough-in temp of 150F, I will set my HLT about 160F, then turn it down to 150F right after dough-in.

I fly sparge 7.5 gallons of wort in about 10 minutes and have always been in the 75-80% efficiency range. I've tried it much slower (e.g. 30 minutes) but it didn't matter -- same efficiency.

Matt -- have you tried going faster and seen the efficiency decrease? I've always heard that you weren't supposed to go faster when fly sparging, but haven't been able to replicate that relationship in 20+ tries. Maybe it only makes a difference for thicker mashes?

bf514921 · Post by **bf514921** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:55 pm

i have tried the fly sparging, but i tend to get a little impatient and do a batch sparge, i know cant rush genious. i am modifiying my HLT again tonight, i didn't like the placement of my coil in the HLT so i am moving it around a little.

Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:59 pm

bf514921 wrote:do you circulate the water in your hlt ?

I do not currently circulate with a march pump. I did use an aquarium pump with silicone hose and some S/S weights I borrowed from Dr. Paulsen and that helped distribute heat. I think with some tinkering that could work for me. I have a gas burner under my HLT too and I can fire that up to heat the space below the element if needed.

Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:09 pm

DrPaulsen wrote:Matt -- have you tried going faster and seen the efficiency decrease? I've always heard that you weren't supposed to go faster when fly sparging, but haven't been able to replicate that relationship in 20+ tries. Maybe it only makes a difference for thicker mashes?

I have sparged too fast and missed my target gravities. I think it works for you because of the 2 quarts per pound in the mashtun. I can't go that high as my mash tun keggle is usually nearly full for most 10 gallon batches I do. I rarely do less than 10 gallons. I am not in a huge hurry to speed up brewing anyway. I may try going a little faster until I see adverse affects.

Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:11 pm

I did listen to a pod cast where several brewpubs wanted to improve their efficiency and the common denominator they found was sparging too fast. That was at an entirely different scale than homebrewers though.

DrPaulsen · Post by **DrPaulsen** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:31 pm

Matt F wrote:I have sparged too fast and missed my target gravities. I think it works for you because of the 2 quarts per pound in the mashtun.

Interesting. I'll have to try a thicker mash next time and see if it makes a difference.

It would make sense that there would be some inflection points in the relationship between sparge thickness, efficiency, and sparge rate. In the limit of a very thick mash, e.g. 0.5 qts/lb, it would seem pretty obvious that you need to sparge slower to improve efficiency. In the limit of a very thin mash, e.g. 3.5 qts/lb, it's entirely possible you wouldn't even have to sparge, which would imply your sparge rate wouldn't influence efficiency.

kjball · Post by **kjball** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:27 am

Limits? Inflection points? Nobody told me I would have to do Calculus to make beer.

bf514921 · Post by **bf514921** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:42 pm

hmm, to gain that data would require making the same beer over, and over, and me not chainging my system. and whats wrong with calc? math is fun, and i become brilliant after a few pints.

Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:22 am

kjball wrote:Limits? Inflection points? Nobody told me I would have to do Calculus to make beer.

Luckily you don't. I tend to practice the standards I have read in books or heard on podcasts, where Lee is smart enough to challenge the norm and test why things are done the way they are. His research has certainly been beneficial to me. For example, the no boil yeast starter. Nice time saver the night before a brew session.