electric fired brewery help

prieff · Post by **prieff** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:05 pm

Hey all,

I keep going back and forth about an electric set up.

How many of you have this? I have seen Dr Paulsen's setup and would like to check out others as well.

My main concerns are cost and safety. I have a 220v 50amp drop in the garage. The mounting of the elements concerns me. I have the "Electric Brewery" plans and the epoxy + gasket seems suspect to me....maybe I'm paranoid. The panel and equipment looks very nice but seems a little overkill and quite expensive.

Long story short....I would like to "tour" 1 or 2 more electric setups if someone would have me.

I work 2nd shift typically including weekends.

Let me know. Appreciate it.

Paul

bf514921 · Post by **bf514921** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:25 pm

sure , i have a realativle simple electric that runs of my 30 amp dryer, soon to have a 50 am drop du to a recent electric upgrade.
my electric slightly older picture but realatively close.

go for the electric. its worth it.

bf514921 · Post by **bf514921** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:47 pm

little more up to date pic

prieff · Post by **prieff** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:23 pm

Thanks Brandon. Did you design the control yourself or use existing plans? SSR and PID controller?Curious how you mounted the elements. Would love to come look at it.PaulFrom: "bf514921" <brew-equipment@crbeernuts.org>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 20:47:35 -0600
To: <brew-equipment@crbeernuts.org>
ReplyTo: brew-equipment@crbeernuts.org
Subject: Re: electric fired brewery help

little more up to date pic http://www.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=50192&title=100-2201&cat=500
Brandon Franklin
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-MG- · Post by **-MG-** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:35 pm

I just finished my electric setup. It's nearly identical to the electric brewery by kal. I plan to do my first batch on it this weekend. Should be quite the experience. Be happy to walk you through things and show it once I'm going.

Martin

Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:47 am

I have an electric HLT. I used a weldless fitting from Bargain Fittings that was $9. Works well. They have good prices on thermowells too.

http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.ph ... duct_id=95

BrewHound · Post by **BrewHound** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:15 am

Currently building a system right now, the controller I am building is based on Kal's work at www.theelectricbrewery.com , however, I have made significant modifications to it to match my desired system.

I would suggest going to that site as it is very step-by-step dumbed down and really gives a good base starting point as too a good base that you can remove functionality or add functionality. Check it out and if you want to watch some of my build as I build the controller you are welcomed.

Update: Just got 3 brand new shinny 25 gallon stainless steel pots yesterday!

afterthought, just noticed that you have already got the electric brewery instruction set, so obviously you have looked at it. the grounding of the pots should be fine, the locknut is making contact with the pot and the threads of the element, and element is contacted with the box through the metal cover. The cover bonded and connected to the box, box has ground feeding back. So you should have plenty of grounding there to make it safe. However, I let you know if I electrocute myself, which would certainly disprove Kal's claims.

prieff · Post by **prieff** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:30 pm

Thanks for the input. I would love to check out anyones system that would have me (and schedules work out).

My biggest problem with Kal's is the "goofy" electrical box with the epoxy and round hole being sealed on a curved surface. I am sure it is fine, just wondered if there isn't a better way. For example, would a welded nut be better? Does everyone here use the weldless fittings and a box per Kal's suggestion?

I am also curious about the power control. I know Kal uses SSRs and PID controllers. On highgravity their box looks like a switch and potentiometer...which I don't see how would work....but maybe they are using a different method? Power regulation as opposed to fast switching? Maybe the Doc can weigh in?

And lastly, I do 10 gallon batches to keep up with my habit. Did 200 gallons exactly last year. So, I want to size appropriately. 220 is more efficient by a mile but could the HLT be 110 and get away with it? Would 2-110 circuits boil 12 gallons?

Thanks for all your help and input. Someday maybe you could have a meeting on a weekend when I'm not working

Paul

bf514921 · Post by **bf514921** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:56 pm

maybe the HLT on a dedicated 20 amp and 2000 watt heater, 2 seperate circuits could work, but a single 220 would be way better. I run mine off my dryer outlet in my basement. only downside is brewday cant be laundry day.

DrPaulsen · Post by **DrPaulsen** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:52 am

prieff wrote:My biggest problem with Kal's is the "goofy" electrical box with the epoxy and round hole being sealed on a curved surface. I am sure it is fine, just wondered if there isn't a better way. For example, would a welded nut be better? Does everyone here use the weldless fittings and a box per Kal's suggestion?

My HLT uses a weldless fitting with a locknut and silicone o-ring on the interior of the pot, while my BK uses a welded nut with an o-ring outside the pot. The weldless fitting actually works a little bit better than the welded nut, since it did not require any silicone sealant to stop the drips. Regarding the curvature of the pot, keep in mind that it is locally flat in the region of the o-ring and any deviations from a flat surface translate to different levels of compression in different parts of the o-ring. That being said, if you tighten it down enough, it shouldn't leak.

prieff wrote: I am also curious about the power control. I know Kal uses SSRs and PID controllers. On highgravity their box looks like a switch and potentiometer...which I don't see how would work....but maybe they are using a different method? Power regulation as opposed to fast switching? Maybe the Doc can weigh in?

I think the High Gravity Homebrew EBCII power controller is a high power dimmer switch. This is akin to what I used to use in my system (and what I suspect Kent will be using in the future for his BK). It's a great way to go if you want a low cost, bulletproof power control mechanism and don't require the feedback loop of a PID controller. The only drawback is that it's non-linear and can be a bit touchy -- i.e. 90% of the power range comes with a 1/4 turn of the pot. All the parts for my dimmer switch cost around $5 from Mouser.

prieff wrote: And lastly, I do 10 gallon batches to keep up with my habit. Did 200 gallons exactly last year. So, I want to size appropriately. 220 is more efficient by a mile but could the HLT be 110 and get away with it? Would 2-110 circuits boil 12 gallons?

With enough insulation and patience a 1W LED should eventually boil 12 gallons of wort. If your level of patience is similar to mine, you will want at least 4000W of total heating power to do a 12 gallon boil. 240V vs 120V is entirely a matter of current capacity. To hit 4000W with a 120V system, you'll need at least 35A of current, which means two separate 20A circuits. If you run a 240V system, you will only need one 20A circuit.

prieff · Post by **prieff** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:10 pm

Thanks again everyone.

Brandon: I would like to see your setup in person sometime. It is kind of hard to tell from the pictures how you connect the wires and seal up the business end of the elements.

Doc: Maybe I am looking in the wrong places but I can't find any rheostats, pots, or dimmer switches rated for that voltage and load. Do you have any links or suggestions? Do you know which one highgravity is using?

My thoughts are to get the kettles fitted, stand built, pumps installed... as cheap as possible... use the crap out of it for 6 months, and THEN start to automate with SSRs and PIDs. I am not totally new to wiring and electronics so if I could find plans to a pot style manual controller to start, and was cheap, I may go this route.

I have been using a keggle, 2 banjo burners, an igloo 10 gallon cooler with SS braid, and a 10g megapot. I have 2 other sankes that are waiting to be put to use in this project.

Sorry to be such a bother to you guys. The internet is great but to actually get to come see some of these things in invaluable.

One LAST question for today.... I have seen complaints about rust on the face of the interior part of the element (not the element itself but the exposed part or the 'plug' of the element). Has anyone seen this?

Thanks a ton guys.

Paul

DrPaulsen · Post by **DrPaulsen** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:20 pm

Paul -- I couldn't find a high power dimmer switch, either, so I had to design one. My itemized order from Mouser is attached, below. The important parts you'll need are the triac and the diac. The high voltage capacitors can probably be sourced from Radio Shaft or else scavenged from a junk TV, computer monitor, etc. Please note that my order covered enough parts to build two dimmer switches.

The circuit I designed is in the Brewing with Electricity slides I posted for the January 2011 Tech Topic (http://www.crbeernuts.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=1039) on slide 16. Also, if you flip to slide 8, you'll see some surface rust on the face of my HLT heating element. I get after it with a blue scrub pad every now and again, but mostly just don't worry about it. It's lasted me 20+ brews so far and the surface rust has only just now made its way onto the base of the heating element sheath. The only point where I'd be worried is if the rust eats through the stainless steel coating on the heating element and exposes the internal ceramic insulator. This could eventually short out the heating element, but I don't expect that to happen anytime soon. Even if it burns out after 50 or 60 batches, that seems like a pretty good deal to me. The heating element in my BK shows much less evidence of rust...probably b/c I don't leave it full of water overnight.

Also, no worries on asking questions. That's why we're all here -- to help each other make better beer.

Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:24 pm

prieff wrote:One LAST question for today.... I have seen complaints about rust on the face of the interior part of the element (not the element itself but the exposed part or the 'plug' of the element). Has anyone seen this?

Thanks a ton guys.

Paul

You mean like this? I have a 120v $9 copper element I picked up when getting some other stuff for the house at Menards. I left water in too long before a brew session and I got rust. I plan to upgrade to a higher wattage element someday and want something that won't rust like this one did.

bf514921 · Post by **bf514921** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:55 am

sure shoot me a pm

-MG- · Post by **-MG-** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:04 am

I'm adding to this discussion a little late: I have all my heating elements installed like Kal has in his build all weldless. You could certainly weld them on if you have the skills, but that's something I didnt want to tackle so weldless works great. I have just received my control panel this weekend and brewed two batches over the weekend.

Let me know if you want to come check it out. Randy and I are planning to do a tech meeting at my place in the near future as well to go over the electric brewery and some of the methods I use like closed system fermention.