Chill for the electric brew

prieff · Post by **prieff** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:18 am

For those with electric boil kettles->

What is your method of chilling?

In my keggle with propane I am currently using 1/2 copper 60' immersion chiller I made. It barely all fits and winds up resting on the bottom the keggle during chilling. It is probably overkill but it ZAPS the heat out fast. When I go electric I am going to lose some depth and clearly won't be able to let it sit on the element. Thought about suspending it from above or making legs for it to straddle the element. I don't really like either idea as the thing is quite big and heavy. I also don't like the idea of plate or counterflow chiller because of the risk of junk getting stuck in it. It will be a compromise either way and I am looking for some real experience advice.

Paul

BrewHound · Post by **BrewHound** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:35 am

What you can do is a instantiation of the electric brewery HLT HERMS coil. Get 100' of stainless or copper tubing coil to size and mount inside the kettle with the ends attached to compression fittings that attach to ball valves on the outside of the kettle. You then run your water your water through this. Add a pump recirculating the beer and creating a whirlpool.

You then have a permanently attached submersion chiller, the boil gives you your sanitation for it. This should work as well as your current immersion chiller. The only concern would be coiling the tube in a way to keep the profile low enough so that you could do small batches and the coil remains completely submerged.

prieff · Post by **prieff** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:46 am

I had thought about doing something like that. I was wondering if that during the boil the left over water would turn to steam and build up a lot of pressure in the coil. Could crack the valves a bit I suppose and be wary of the steam. Also seems like it would get really crowded and hard to clean.

Does anyone have this kind of setup? I'd like to hear about it.

Also thought about using the HERMS coil in the HLT filled with icewater. Figured that I could recirc near boiling wort through it for a few minutes before adding the ice and water. I guess the same thing could be done with a counterflow or plate, but just never being able to get inside of it weirds me out a little.

Paul

Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:59 am

I am a huge supporter of immersion chilling. You may have to make some adjustments if you do the HLT thing which will function like a counterflow or plate chiller in that the only thing chilled is what has gone through the coil. Advantage of immersion is you are chilling the entire volume of wort at once. You can sort of do this with the HLT coil/counter flow/plate if you recirc it back in to the boil kettle before running off to the fermentor.

I had a counterflow and my hop aroma/flavor was never the same as with my immersion. I now use the whirlpool immersion chiller made famous by Jamil and love it. I use it as a HERMS coil in my electric HLT and it allows me to whirlpool my HLT with the pump to even out temperature. It rest on top of the inside of the weldless ball valve fitting inside my HLT and is held in place by the lid. This suspends it just above the heating element. I few more pieces of support under the chiller would be a good thing though.

Sounds like if you want to be able to remove the coil from your electric boil kettle you may need to add legs or something to suspend it above the element. Maybe you could bend the coil and create larger gaps towards the bottom of the chiller to weave it in and around the element. Doesn't sound like you have much wiggle room though. I have maintained gas for my boil because I like fire. Same for my cooking. Is really nice when you are doing a scotch ale and want to carmelize the first gallon or two before collecting the rest of your wort for the boil.

bf514921 · Post by **bf514921** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:40 pm

i built legs for my immersion chiller: I sweated some 90 degree elbows on the bottom to make some legs so it doesn't sit on the electric element but reaches all the way to the bottom. combine with whirlpool works great, plus is removable for cleaning.

DrPaulsen · Post by **DrPaulsen** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:13 pm

I use a Chillzilla CFC for both heating, during a HERMS mash, and cooling after the boil. I am very happy with it. I've used other, smaller CFCs and immersion chillers in the past and really appreciate the efficiency of the Chillzilla. I use a CIP routine with Oxiclean to clean it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33275630@N ... 123075865/

prieff · Post by **prieff** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:29 pm

Dr, not sure why I didn't think of that. Would keep a mess of metal out of the HLT and BK. Was it difficult to affix NPT fittings to the chiller?PaulFrom: "DrPaulsen" <brew-tech@crbeernuts.org>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:13:26 -0500
To: <brew-tech@crbeernuts.org>
ReplyTo: brew-tech@crbeernuts.org
Subject: Re: Chill for the electric brew

I use a Chillzilla CFC for both heating, during a HERMS mash, and cooling after the boil. I am very happy with it. I've used other, smaller CFCs and immersion chillers in the past and really appreciate the efficiency of the Chillzilla. I use a CIP routine with Oxiclean to clean it. http://www.flickr.com/photos/33275630@N08/sets/72157628123075865/
-------------------- m2f -------------------- Sent using Mail2Forum (http://www.mail2forum.com). Read this topic online here: http://www.crbeernuts.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=18216#18216 -------------------- m2f --------------------

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DrPaulsen · Post by **DrPaulsen** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:03 pm

The water tubes came with NPT fittings. I just slip 1/2" tubing over the wort tubes.

Being both lazy and a cheapskate, I didn't want to put a coil in my HLT if I cold figure out a way around it. After thinking on the problem for a few weeks, the idea to re-use the chiller popped into my head. I suppose it's the CFC-equivalent of what Matt Franklin does with an immersion chiller. One potential downside of my approach is that you need two pumps. Since I was already committed to a single-tier system, this was a no-brainer for me.

prieff · Post by **prieff** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:13 pm

I am liking this idea although I suppose like every single different way of doing things there are tradeoffs. I know we talked about this when I visited you but maybe others have some input as well. Is it still possible to whirlpool and avoid trub? I plan on using a hop sack/spider to keep most of the hops out, but I would thing all of the cold break would wind up in the fermenter with a cfc....which maybe doesn't matter at all cuz every single production brewery I have visited uses plate chillers. Someone mentioned also it is a different hop result as opposed to the immersion. Decisions. Good thing I got you guys.PaulFrom: "DrPaulsen" <brew-tech@crbeernuts.org>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 21:03:19 -0500
To: <brew-tech@crbeernuts.org>
ReplyTo: brew-tech@crbeernuts.org
Subject: Re: Chill for the electric brew

The water tubes came with NPT fittings. I just slip 1/2" tubing over the wort tubes. Being both lazy and a cheapskate, I didn't want to put a coil in my HLT if I cold figure out a way around it. After thinking on the problem for a few weeks, the idea to re-use the chiller popped into my head. I suppose it's the CFC-equivalent of what Matt Franklin does with an immersion chiller. One potential downside of my approach is that you need two pumps. Since I was already committed to a single-tier system, this was a no-brainer for me.
-------------------- m2f -------------------- Sent using Mail2Forum (http://www.mail2forum.com). Read this topic online here: http://www.crbeernuts.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=18218#18218 -------------------- m2f --------------------

Post generated using Mail2Forum (http://www.mail2forum.com)

DrPaulsen · Post by **DrPaulsen** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:44 pm

You should be able to whirlpool with a CFC, but it might take a more powerful pump, due to the extra flow restriction of the CFC pipe/manifold. I do not whirlpool b/c I have a bottom drain. I've used an inline filter to remove trub, after the CFC, but I have no idea if it did any good. The wort going into the fermenter was crystal clear, but the beer still wound up with a chill haze and required fining.

For most beers, I just assume the cold break does not affect flavor negatively, since I have not seen compelling evidence one way or the other. I might change my mind someday, but for now not being able to separate the cold break seems like an acceptable limitation/trade-off.

-MG- · Post by **-MG-** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:15 am

DrPaulsen wrote:I use a Chillzilla CFC for both heating, during a HERMS mash, and cooling after the boil. I am very happy with it. I've used other, smaller CFCs and immersion chillers in the past and really appreciate the efficiency of the Chillzilla. I use a CIP routine with Oxiclean to clean it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33275630@N ... 123075865/

I use the same as the Dr.

Although, I do have the stainless coil in my HLT you talked about. If you want we can setup a time and do some testing if you want to see how effective this process could be.

Otherwise right now I just use the CFC, while you use up a lot of water for that, I have a 15.5G 'tank' I use to save this water as much as possible and use it for cleaning later on.