Low efficiency with wheat

kjball · Post by **kjball** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:40 pm

This is a chronic problem i seem to have. I can't seem to get my efficiency higher than 65% with wheat beers. I've played with my mill setting, and added tons of rice hulls. Does anyone have any input that would help. I'm listening. I was hoping that the HERMS might help with it, I mashed today, starting at 120F, held for 10 min, ramped to 152F over 15 minutes, held that for 60 min, ramped to 162 over 5 minutes, and lautered. I batch sparged and recovered at about 61%. Obviously I need more data points to make a conclusion, but if I can make adjustments now, It would be less frustrating. I seem to be fine with barley grist.

bf514921 · Post by **bf514921** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:03 pm

what kind of numbers do you get with your herms on barley type beers, how much wheat was the grist?

kjball · Post by **kjball** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:10 pm

I've only done 1 HERMS batch with all barley grist and it was 74%. This is something that goes back to before the herms. I think I may have found a reason after some investigation. I read Aaron's post about low efficiency, and all the responses are great. One thing i did discover is that Beersmith defaults to 37 points per pound per gallon (ppg) for wheat (which is what Briess has on their product sheet) There is at least 1 post on hbt that talks about low efficiency with wheat. The general consensus is that 37 ppg is way too high. I saw a number as low as 22 ppg. I think that's way to low, but even if I lower the ppg to 30, it makes the efficiency 70% which is low, but not out of the realm of possibility for me.

This recipe was 63% red wheat. Is there a source of ranges for expected ppg

DrPaulsen · Post by **DrPaulsen** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:02 pm

Interesting problem.

Have you always been using the same wheat malt? That might lend credence to the low-ppg theory. If not, I doubt it.

What volume of rice hulls do you use? It's a long shot, but they do absorb wort and this would be an efficiency hit unique to wheat beers. It's possible that more rice hulls might actually be worse.

Do you get the same effect with unmalted wheat? For example, in a wit?

kjball · Post by **kjball** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:03 am

Unmalted wheat seems to be better, as long as I can get it to lauter. I did use a shit-ton of rice hulls yesterday. That might have something to do with it. I would assume though that the sugars would leach out of the rice hulls during sparging.
This is a new wheat malt for me. I've never used red wheat before yesterday. But, I have had similar issues with white wheat. I was hoping doing a protein rest would help eliminate this. Again, I'm just starting over with a new brewing system, and learning the nuances of it. I still recovered 8.5 gallons of 1.050 wheat wort. Not a total loss, but frustrating when I'm shooting for 10gallons of 1.050 wort.

Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:35 pm

This may not be helpful, but I have no loss of efficiency when using wheat. I fly sparge really slow though instead of batch and have never used rice hulls. Not even when wheat is 50% of the grist. I grind it twice and it is fairly pulverized. I have had similar results efficiency-wise with and with out a protein rest.

kjball · Post by **kjball** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:36 am

Actually that does help Matt. Even though our methods are quite different, it proves that it is something I'm doing, or not doing. I guess a double grind is a good place to start. I usually decrease the gap on my mill when brewing with wheat to get a finer crush, and wheat berries are smaller than barley. The only times I've done a double crush is when I forget to adjust the gap and have to run the grist a second time to get the wheat to grind. Thanks for the insight.

bf514921 · Post by **bf514921** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:54 pm

thats it, just get rid of all your beer, your numbers are being missed, it can't possibye turn out good. send it to me for proper disposal.

kjball · Post by **kjball** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:07 pm

Boy Brandon, We're going to start calling you the garbage man. You're always so eager and thoughtful when it comes to beer disposal.

brownbeard · Post by **brownbeard** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:11 am

I am always about 8% short on efficiency, when using wheat. I do not use rice hulls anymore, but used to, and the results were the same. I usually get around 78% efficiency, and with wheat, I expect it closer to 70%. I just account for it. I am not trying to make a profit, so the extra 1/4lb of grain it will take to make up the difference is not a real concern.

brownbeard · Post by **brownbeard** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:12 am

I do adjust my mill down for wheat.

bf514921 · Post by **bf514921** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:20 am

Hey i do what i can, i have a bad habit and abeer fridge to support.

kjball · Post by **kjball** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:03 pm

For what it's worth, Today i had 82% efficiency It was a total apples to oranges comparison, but the difference is remarkable. Today was 100% barley grist, 92%2 row with some crystal making up the rest.