Bru'n Water

-MG- · Post by **-MG-** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:17 am

Does anyone have this spreadsheet filled out already for CR water? Few items I'm missing that I do not know how to calculate from the water reports.

whitedj · Post by **whitedj** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:22 pm

I use Brew'n water for gross calculations. The conversion factors are seen on sheet '0' in Brew'n water. If you have a specific question please post back with the point of confusion.

I live in marion and am stuck with some hard 'well' water, so my water is highly diluted if not fully built on RO water. With discussing water with most people on the CR water system, there really isn't too much adjusting necessary as a good portion of the water is treated from the Cedar River (and soft).

Overall, my notes from Randy's water tech meeting and other reading indicate for all grain brewing keep Ca greater than 50PPM, pH below 5.8 (carbonates low).

I typically add crystals and roasted malts at mash out (so they don't change the mash pH)

Other than that I change the SO4 and Cl based on whether the beer is hoppy or malty.

carrisr · Post by **carrisr** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:32 am

I'm on well water too so I build my water from RO. What are you missing from the CR water report. I can probably fill in the blanks for you.

On 12/24/2012 11:22 PM, whitedj wrote:

I use Brew'n water for gross calculations. The conversion factors are seen on sheet '0' in Brew'n water. If you have a specific question please post back with the point of confusion.

I live in marion and am stuck with some hard 'well' water, so my water is highly diluted if not fully built on RO water. With discussing water with most people on the CR water system, there really isn't too much adjusting necessary as a good portion of the water is treated from the Cedar River (and soft).

Overall, my notes from Randy's water tech meeting and other reading indicate for all grain brewing keep Ca greater than 50PPM, pH below 5.8 (carbonates low).

I typically add crystals and roasted malts at mash out (so they don't change the mash pH)

Other than that I change the SO4 and Cl based on whether the beer is hoppy or malty.

The guy who submitted a barley wine in the Furious competition...

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-MG- · Post by **-MG-** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:27 pm

Thanks for the replies.

I was needed Bicarbonate and Carbonate concentration, but just noticed Bru'n has a conversion in place if its reported as CaCO3 (like CR's water is reported).

I'm using the august report that we last have and using averaged amounts. I'll post it up here if I can when I have it all filled out.

Steven P · Post by **Steven P** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:14 pm

After completing and reviewing the Bru'n Water spreadsheet am I off base stating that our CR water is crazy soft? The comparative chart on worksheet 5 shows we are comparable to Pilsen.

If so, that's really nice to know. I may start playing with water salt additions.

-MG- · Post by **-MG-** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:39 am

Some terms I could use help clarifying:

Chloride = Chlorine? Is this basically what we use potassium metabsulphite (Campden Tablet), for?

I'm guessing Mash water is my strike water?

And batch wort volume is my pre-boil wort volume?

Here are the basic numbers I'm using:

Ca - 20.5
Mg - 13.1
Na - 13.2
K - 0
Iron ~ 0
Bicarbonate - 85.9
Carbonate - .7
Sulfate - 21.1
Chloride - 33.4
Nitrate - .3
Nitrite - 0
Fluoride - .6

This is taking average numbers from the August report.

carrisr · Post by **carrisr** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:17 am

First,
Make sure that you are using the latest version of the sheet, 1.13, as he's made a fair number of tweaks to this over the last year. The latest version can be downloaded from:

https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/home/files

No, chloride and chlorine are not the same thing. Chlorine has no measurable effect on pH. However, you are correct about the need to remove it from brewing water. It will cause a band-aid flavor if not removed. Camden tablets will do it, as will letting the water sit exposed to air for a few days as it naturally dissipates. However, I don't think CR actually uses chlorine any more, but rather chloramine. This doesn't dissapate on it's own very fast so you need to either filter it out or use campden.

Mash is the amount of water used for the mash itself. It does no include sparge water. Batch wort volume is how much wort will be produced by the end of your boil.

Your numbers below look good.

On 12/27/2012 08:39 AM, -MG- wrote:

Some terms I could use help clarifying:

Chloride = Chlorine? Is this basically what we use potassium metabsulphite (Campden Tablet), for?

I'm guessing Mash water is my strike water?

And batch wort volume is my pre-boil wort volume?

Here are the basic numbers I'm using:

Ca - 20.5
Mg - 13.1
Na - 13.2
K - 0
Iron ~ 0
Bicarbonate - 85.9
Carbonate - .7
Sulfate - 21.1
Chloride - 33.4
Nitrate - .3
Nitrite - 0
Fluoride - .6

This is taking average numbers from the August report.

-Martin

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-MG- · Post by **-MG-** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:23 am

Where do you find the version?

I just downloaded it from his website. Hoping his links are updated.

carrisr · Post by **carrisr** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:32 am

If you downloaded it from his site then you have the latest version (1.13). The version # is part of the file name.

On 12/27/2012 11:23 AM, -MG- wrote:

Where do you find the version?

I just downloaded it from his website. Hoping his links are updated.

-Martin

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Steven P · Post by **Steven P** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:32 am

Version is in the file name. I downloaded "Brun Water v1_13us.xls" for example.

-MG- · Post by **-MG-** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:02 pm

I renamed it.. lol...

Post by **JimPotts** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:29 pm

Since they added/switched to the shallower wells, I think CR water isn't as hard as it used to be, but I'd still call our water "hard." (Ames, on the other hand, does have crazy-soft water, or at least it did when I lived there.)

-Jim

On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Steven P <brew-tech@crbeernuts.org (brew-tech@crbeernuts.org)> wrote:

After completing and reviewing the Bru'n Water spreadsheet am I off base stating that our CR water is crazy soft?

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TappedOut · Post by **TappedOut** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:47 pm

Copy/Paste from mine. Since I'm on the SE side, I based mine off the J Ave plant readings. I used one of the water reports Kent has posted, but don't remember which. Good to see similar numbers to MG.

Calcium (Ca) 24.1
Magnesium (Mg) 15.1
Sodium (Na) 11.0
Potassium (K) 0.0
Iron (Fe) 0.0

75.9 Bicarbonate (HCO3)
0.5 Carbonate (CO3)
30.0 Sulfate (SO4)
29.0 Chloride (Cl)
4.0 Nitrate (NO3)
0.0 Nitrite (NO2)
0.9 Fluoride (F)

johnnyik · Post by **johnnyik** » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:23 pm

So, I have never really paid attention to my water until now. I've been studying it for the last month or two now. I sent in a sample to Ward Labs. The numbers I got back are staggering! In Center Point, I have liquid limestone! Numbers as follows:

Ca 57ppm
Mg 28ppm
Sulfate 78ppm
Chloride 9ppm
Bicarbonate HCO3 373
Alkalinity as CaCO3 306
pH 7.5

That alkalinity is ridiculous! Only good for stout and dark lager. If I want to make a Pils I have to use 9gal distilled and one gal tap plus add a bunch of calcium to decrease the mash pH enough. Plus my sulfate to chloride ratio is so far out of whack, any hoppy beers will taste nasty bitter (which they have).

I listened to all four water podcasts from BrewStrong, read the mash pH section of How to Brew and use the water chemistry calculator on brewersfriend.com and John Palmers mash spreadsheet to calculate all of my mash and boil additions of gypsum and calcium chloride. Now that I have this new knowledge, I'm itching to brew some quality pale ale's, IPA's and clean light lagers for this summer! It pays to know your water. Send it in to Ward Labs if you need. It was easy, pretty cheap, and really useful. PM me if you need any advice.

carrisr · Post by **carrisr** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:33 am

Your water is similar to mine, though my sulphate is not that high.
On Jan 26, 2013 12:23 PM, "johnnyik" <brew-tech@crbeernuts.org (brew-tech@crbeernuts.org)> wrote:

So, I have never really paid attention to my water until now. I've been studying it for the last month or two now. I sent in a sample to Ward Labs. The numbers I got back are staggering! In Center Point, I have liquid limestone! Numbers as follows:

Ca 57ppm
Mg 28ppm
Sulfate 78ppm
Chloride 9ppm
Bicarbonate HCO3 373
Alkalinity as CaCO3 306
pH 7.5

That alkalinity is ridiculous! Only good for stout and dark lager. If I want to make a Pils I have to use 9gal distilled and one gal tap plus add a bunch of calcium to decrease the mash pH enough. Plus my sulfate to chloride ratio is so far out of whack, any hoppy beers will taste nasty bitter (which they have).

I listened to all four water podcasts from BrewStrong, read the mash pH section of How to Brew and use the water chemistry calculator on brewersfriend.com and John Palmers mash spreadsheet to calculate all of my mash and boil additions of gypsum and calcium chloride. Now that I have this new knowledge, I'm itching to brew some quality pale ale's, IPA's and clean light lagers for this summer! It pays to know your water. Send it in to Ward Labs if you need. It was easy, pretty cheap, and really useful. PM me if you need any advice.

John Eikenberry

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