I recently sold my electric boil keggle and purchased a kettle/whirlpool combi-tank from Stout Tanks (http://conical-fermenter.com/). I uploaded a series of pictures of the kettle to my flickr account. They can be found here, if you're interested:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33275630@N ... 244211454/
Much like the conical fermentor I picked up from there a few months ago, I'm very impressed with the workmanship quality from Stout. The stainless welds are clean and highly polished. The ball valves are easy to disassemble for cleaning and are a snap to install on the kettle. Plus, the customer service at Stout was top notch. If you're in the market for a new kettle, I recommend checking out Stout.
Stout Boil Kettle/Whirlpool Tank
Stout Boil Kettle/Whirlpool Tank
Lee, looks great! That is one serious sight tube! On Dec 13, 2012 11:53 PM, "DrPaulsen" <brew-equipment@crbeernuts.org (brew-equipment@crbeernuts.org)> wrote:
Post generated using Mail2Forum (http://www.mail2forum.com)I recently sold my electric boil keggle and purchased a kettle/whirlpool combi-tank from Stout Tanks (http://conical-fermenter.com/). I uploaded a series of pictures of the kettle to my flickr account. They can be found here, if you're interested:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33275630@N08/sets/72157632244211454/
Much like the conical fermentor I picked up from there a few months ago, I'm very impressed with the workmanship quality from Stout. The stainless welds are clean and highly polished. The ball valves are easy to disassemble for cleaning and are a snap to install on the kettle. Plus, the customer service at Stout was top notch. If you're in the market for a new kettle, I recommend checking out Stout.
Jim Fuller
Bird In The Hand Brewery
Life is good, when the beer is too...
Bird In The Hand Brewery
Life is good, when the beer is too...
Yes, for now. I'm currently borrowing a hurricane burner, but I have it on good authority that Santa is bringing me a Blichmann floor standing burner for Xmas.
My plan is to go the propane route for a year and then either go back to electric or plumb in NG. If I go back to electric with this kettle, though, I'm going to look pretty hard for some type of shape-able element that I can install on the bottom of the kettle in a loop.
Do any of you guys have piezo-electric starters on your burners? I haven't used gas for quite a few years and am immediately annoyed at the thought of having to get out a lighter to ignite the burner. If my gas grill has a push button, I can't imagine why a brew burner couldn't have one.
My plan is to go the propane route for a year and then either go back to electric or plumb in NG. If I go back to electric with this kettle, though, I'm going to look pretty hard for some type of shape-able element that I can install on the bottom of the kettle in a loop.
Do any of you guys have piezo-electric starters on your burners? I haven't used gas for quite a few years and am immediately annoyed at the thought of having to get out a lighter to ignite the burner. If my gas grill has a push button, I can't imagine why a brew burner couldn't have one.
I use one of those long lighters. I have seen piezo starters mounted to superb burners like I have under my HLT that is rarley used. The lighter doesn't bother me as I basically only use it once or twice during a brew session.
Matt Franklin
Slappy Brewing North
On Tap:
American IPA
Strata Hazy IPA
Dr. Lee Orval
American Strong Ale
Friend of the Devil Belgian Golden Strong
Imperial Stout
Slappy Brewing North
On Tap:
American IPA
Strata Hazy IPA
Dr. Lee Orval
American Strong Ale
Friend of the Devil Belgian Golden Strong
Imperial Stout
Stout Boil Kettle/Whirlpool Tank
Jim Fuller does. He just got a beautiful "Tower of Power" from Blichmann.
On another note: we seem to have gotten into a battle of one-upmanship between some club members recently. I'm feeling extremely left out with my ghetto setup.
Lee, if you are at the party tonight, I'd love to hear your reasons for going back to a gas fired system. You've put a lot of time and energy (sorry) onto electric so I was very surprised by this announcement.
On 12/14/2012 03:14 PM, Matt F wrote:
On another note: we seem to have gotten into a battle of one-upmanship between some club members recently. I'm feeling extremely left out with my ghetto setup.
Lee, if you are at the party tonight, I'd love to hear your reasons for going back to a gas fired system. You've put a lot of time and energy (sorry) onto electric so I was very surprised by this announcement.
On 12/14/2012 03:14 PM, Matt F wrote:
Post generated using Mail2Forum (http://www.mail2forum.com)I use one of those long lighters. I have seen piezo starters mounted to superb burners like I have under my HLT that is rarley used. The lighter doesn't bother me as I basically only use it once or twice during a brew session.
Matt Franklin
Slappy Brewing North
On Tap:
Over The Line IPA
Hefeweizen
Funk You Very Much Belgian Sour
Bourbon Barrel Aged Up in Smoke Imperial Porter
Ferementing/Aging:
Flanders Brown Ale/Oud Bruin
Concecration Clone
Randy Carris
Randy All the Time Brewing
Randy All the Time Brewing
Re: Stout Boil Kettle/Whirlpool Tank
Sorry I'm not at the party. I just got back into town from an all-day trip to Wisconsin.
I was also a little surprised by my decision. After brewing all electric for the past 4 years or so, I never thought I'd talk myself into using a gas burner again. My primary reason for the switch stems from a desire to get a more effective whirlpool to remove trub before pitching. For the last few years I've pretty consistently fought chill haze and a slightly astringent character in my beers. While I've had good success in removing those elements with various fining agents (Polyclar & PVPP, namely), I have still not been able to identify the root cause. I am curious if this is due to the inability to settle/whirlpool out the trub in my previous boil kettle, since it had a bottom drain. I contemplated building a separate whirlpool tank, but once I considered what I could sell my boil kettle for, it was more cost effective to just buy the kettle from Stout. In short, the main thing I was looking to get rid of was the bottom drain, not the electric element.
I would have had to wait 6 months to get a special order Stout Kettle with a TC port welded on for an electric element. Since I'm impatient, I decided to just buy one without the TC adapter with the intention of using a weldless bulkhead adapter for the element at some point. In the meantime, I want to run some batches with a gas fired kettle and observe my beers to compare with the trends I've seen with my electric batches in the bottom-drain kettle. I figure about a year's worth of brews should give me enough data to say whether or not leaving the hot break and trub behind will give me cleaner tasting beers.
I plan to try an electric element again, but would really like to convince myself first that installing one won't diminish the effectiveness of the whirlpool. If you have a big enough electric element, it should be able to achieve a very robust boil and realize good protein coagulation (much like the guy from The Electric Brewery demonstrates in his videos). However, if you can't separate the trub well, I suspect it will generally lead to higher protein and polyphenol levels in your beer (i.e. haze & harshness). I might be wrong, but only a bunch of data will convince me for sure. (Part of me suspects it's related to using very soft water, but that's another variable to consider later.)
A related topic that drew me to this Stout kettle is whirlpool hopping. I started playing around with whirlpool hop additions in my other kettle, using a mash tun false bottom combined with some ultra fine stainless screen. Despite the downside of not being able to leave much of the protein behind, I was able to get really terrific hop character into my beers. The only downside is that the whirlpool fittings that I rigged up were a pain in the ass and there was no good way to achieve a clean installation like the one from Stout. Also, cleaning the hop screen was annoying.
One last note -- I consider the best part of my electric system to be the PID-controlled HLT/HERMS setup. When operated correctly, it makes mash temp control very simple. The electric boil kettle is nice, but not nearly as much as the HLT. If you're going to brew indoors, you still have to vent the steam and it doesn't seem that much harder to also vent burner fumes. That being said, I would still wholeheartedly recommend electric kettles to anyone that is interested, for all the exact same reasons I and many others have advocated electric brewing (cost, efficiency, control/automation, etc.), just maybe not a kettle with a bottom drain.
I was also a little surprised by my decision. After brewing all electric for the past 4 years or so, I never thought I'd talk myself into using a gas burner again. My primary reason for the switch stems from a desire to get a more effective whirlpool to remove trub before pitching. For the last few years I've pretty consistently fought chill haze and a slightly astringent character in my beers. While I've had good success in removing those elements with various fining agents (Polyclar & PVPP, namely), I have still not been able to identify the root cause. I am curious if this is due to the inability to settle/whirlpool out the trub in my previous boil kettle, since it had a bottom drain. I contemplated building a separate whirlpool tank, but once I considered what I could sell my boil kettle for, it was more cost effective to just buy the kettle from Stout. In short, the main thing I was looking to get rid of was the bottom drain, not the electric element.
I would have had to wait 6 months to get a special order Stout Kettle with a TC port welded on for an electric element. Since I'm impatient, I decided to just buy one without the TC adapter with the intention of using a weldless bulkhead adapter for the element at some point. In the meantime, I want to run some batches with a gas fired kettle and observe my beers to compare with the trends I've seen with my electric batches in the bottom-drain kettle. I figure about a year's worth of brews should give me enough data to say whether or not leaving the hot break and trub behind will give me cleaner tasting beers.
I plan to try an electric element again, but would really like to convince myself first that installing one won't diminish the effectiveness of the whirlpool. If you have a big enough electric element, it should be able to achieve a very robust boil and realize good protein coagulation (much like the guy from The Electric Brewery demonstrates in his videos). However, if you can't separate the trub well, I suspect it will generally lead to higher protein and polyphenol levels in your beer (i.e. haze & harshness). I might be wrong, but only a bunch of data will convince me for sure. (Part of me suspects it's related to using very soft water, but that's another variable to consider later.)
A related topic that drew me to this Stout kettle is whirlpool hopping. I started playing around with whirlpool hop additions in my other kettle, using a mash tun false bottom combined with some ultra fine stainless screen. Despite the downside of not being able to leave much of the protein behind, I was able to get really terrific hop character into my beers. The only downside is that the whirlpool fittings that I rigged up were a pain in the ass and there was no good way to achieve a clean installation like the one from Stout. Also, cleaning the hop screen was annoying.
One last note -- I consider the best part of my electric system to be the PID-controlled HLT/HERMS setup. When operated correctly, it makes mash temp control very simple. The electric boil kettle is nice, but not nearly as much as the HLT. If you're going to brew indoors, you still have to vent the steam and it doesn't seem that much harder to also vent burner fumes. That being said, I would still wholeheartedly recommend electric kettles to anyone that is interested, for all the exact same reasons I and many others have advocated electric brewing (cost, efficiency, control/automation, etc.), just maybe not a kettle with a bottom drain.
carrisr wrote:Jim Fuller does. He just got a beautiful "Tower of Power" from Blichmann.
On another note: we seem to have gotten into a battle of one-upmanship between some club members recently. I'm feeling extremely left out with my ghetto setup.
Lee, if you are at the party tonight, I'd love to hear your reasons for going back to a gas fired system. You've put a lot of time and energy (sorry) onto electric so I was very surprised by this announcement.
Have you considered the below?
http://www.brewershardware.com/FILTER1.html
When I finally get to upgrade to a nice brewing stand I'm certain I will incorporate one before pumping out to the plate chiller.
http://www.brewershardware.com/FILTER1.html
When I finally get to upgrade to a nice brewing stand I'm certain I will incorporate one before pumping out to the plate chiller.
Cedar Rapids Beer Nuts Secretary
"Milk does a body good my ass. Beer is the healthier choice and hops are a wonderful medicine."
MattF
"Milk does a body good my ass. Beer is the healthier choice and hops are a wonderful medicine."
MattF
Yes, but I'm not convinced it will work as a trub filter. The few attempts I've read about pro brewers trying to filter their wort post-boil, required substantially smaller filters than 500 um. Despite being visible in large clumps, the core protein/polyphenol component to trub is incredibly small (~5 um, I think). I believe the large clumps will readily separate going through a filter that large. I thought making a paper filter like on my Aero Press coffee maker, but it seemed like a big hassle for little probable gain vs whirlpooling/settling.
I wonder if this stuff settles out better when the whirlpool happens at pitching temp. When I am not in a hurry, I will chill my wort with my whirlpool immersion chiller. Once cool I turn off the pump and let things settle out. I will let it sit there for a while and do all my other clean up before running off to my fermentor.
Matt Franklin
Slappy Brewing North
On Tap:
American IPA
Strata Hazy IPA
Dr. Lee Orval
American Strong Ale
Friend of the Devil Belgian Golden Strong
Imperial Stout
Slappy Brewing North
On Tap:
American IPA
Strata Hazy IPA
Dr. Lee Orval
American Strong Ale
Friend of the Devil Belgian Golden Strong
Imperial Stout
Do you suppose changing up the hop type (using whole cone hops in the BK) would make a difference? I thought hop oils were helpful with coagulating and straining out break material on a false bottom. I know you're going hardcore on polyphenol reduction into the fermenter so maybe adding additional vegetable mass is a step backwards.
I hear some people are having good luck with using hop shots extracts instead of straight hops for bittering.
Off course this is just speculation and pro brewers use a whirlpool so I'm all behind you.
I hear some people are having good luck with using hop shots extracts instead of straight hops for bittering.
Off course this is just speculation and pro brewers use a whirlpool so I'm all behind you.
Cedar Rapids Beer Nuts Secretary
"Milk does a body good my ass. Beer is the healthier choice and hops are a wonderful medicine."
MattF
"Milk does a body good my ass. Beer is the healthier choice and hops are a wonderful medicine."
MattF