Hi, I am new to this forum, actually new to brewing in general (i.e. I am still in the planning/gathering equipment stage). I understand that the 5 gallon buckets that can be cheaply had at Menards and other home improvement stores are not good for brewing purposes due to chemicals leaching into whatever is being stored in them. My question is, does anyone know how big of a problem this is? Is it like the old CCA treated lumber that would require a child to eat an entire swingset to become sick, or would it have more immediate, dire results.
Also, is the main problem with using 5 gallon plastic water cooler bottles as secondary fermenters air infiltration, or is there any other reason not to use these?
Anyway, I would appreciate any advice anyone would be willing to give me, since what I know about brewing could just about fill a thimble.
Thanks,
Sam
just how dangerous/unhealthy is this?
Welcome, Sam.
If the bucket is marked HDPE 2, it's probably OK. The biggest issue with the plastic buckets is they scratch easily, and those scratches (even the micro-scratches you can't see) can harbor microorganisms that may contaminate your beer. I'd also base any decision on smell, you don't want to use something that will introduce any flavors to the beer.
PET plastic is less oxygen permeable than food-grade plastic buckets.
I use a glass six gallon carboy and a PET plastic six gallon BetterBottle for primary fermentation. I prefer the BetterBottle. I clean it with PBW (powdered brewers wash) and let it soak for 24 hours so that I don't have to use anything that will scratch it. The PBW is very expensive, but worth it. (Some of the guys use generic unscented oxyclean and say it works great.)
I recommend the Midwest Supplies Starter Kit. They're $60 plus shipping, with everything you need to get started, except the brew pot to boil in, and an ingredient kit. Add a 6 gallon better bottle for primary fermentation when finances allow. Then maybe a 5 gallon better bottle for secondary fermentation. Build from there.
I prefer Northern Brewer for brewing ingredients and kits. They're more expensive than Midwest Supplies, but their shipping department runs like clockwork. With Midwest sometimes it takes a few days for them to get an order together.
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/brewing- ... t-kit.html
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/pbw-by-f ... -1-lb.html
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/6-gallon ... ottle.html
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/medium-u ... illed.html
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing
If the bucket is marked HDPE 2, it's probably OK. The biggest issue with the plastic buckets is they scratch easily, and those scratches (even the micro-scratches you can't see) can harbor microorganisms that may contaminate your beer. I'd also base any decision on smell, you don't want to use something that will introduce any flavors to the beer.
PET plastic is less oxygen permeable than food-grade plastic buckets.
I use a glass six gallon carboy and a PET plastic six gallon BetterBottle for primary fermentation. I prefer the BetterBottle. I clean it with PBW (powdered brewers wash) and let it soak for 24 hours so that I don't have to use anything that will scratch it. The PBW is very expensive, but worth it. (Some of the guys use generic unscented oxyclean and say it works great.)
I recommend the Midwest Supplies Starter Kit. They're $60 plus shipping, with everything you need to get started, except the brew pot to boil in, and an ingredient kit. Add a 6 gallon better bottle for primary fermentation when finances allow. Then maybe a 5 gallon better bottle for secondary fermentation. Build from there.
I prefer Northern Brewer for brewing ingredients and kits. They're more expensive than Midwest Supplies, but their shipping department runs like clockwork. With Midwest sometimes it takes a few days for them to get an order together.
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/brewing- ... t-kit.html
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/pbw-by-f ... -1-lb.html
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/6-gallon ... ottle.html
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/medium-u ... illed.html
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing
Hi Derek, thanks for the quick reply. I actually already have Midwest's website bookmarked - having been in school the past 3 years, it is a pleasant escape to drool over all the gear and recipe kits they have to offer. I finally have the wife onboard after bringing her to the Iowa Festival of Beers in Amana this past September and she discovered there
ARE beers outside of budweiser (she is especially fond of the wheats), so my first "brew day" will hopefully be in the very near future.
Anyway, again, thank you for the quick reply, I will be checking out the links that you included.
-Sam
ARE beers outside of budweiser (she is especially fond of the wheats), so my first "brew day" will hopefully be in the very near future.
Anyway, again, thank you for the quick reply, I will be checking out the links that you included.
-Sam
-
brownbeard
- Posts: 1236
- Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:10 am
- Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
I used to be all glass. Now, I ferment almost exclusively in plastic buckets. Of the 4 infections I have had, 3 have been post fermentation infections that had nothing to do with equipment. In fact, 2 of those were in glass.
Plastic works great. It's cheap. It will never shatter and sever an artery. Buckets have handles. They are much easier to clean than a carboy. I would only use glass if all my buckets are full, or I wanted to age something for a long time, and did not have an empty keg.
Plastic works great. It's cheap. It will never shatter and sever an artery. Buckets have handles. They are much easier to clean than a carboy. I would only use glass if all my buckets are full, or I wanted to age something for a long time, and did not have an empty keg.
You can't get with this with a bad hip - Matt
Welcome Sam. Don't get overwhelmed by all the responses you get in the forum. We are a bunch a passionate homebrewers. Homebrewing can be as simple or complex as you want it to be. You can make great beers in numerous different ways.
I am a glass guy. I like to watch the yeast do their thing and so do my kids. They call the yeast my little pets. I also get busy and tend to leave things in the fermenter longer than I would like sometimes. Using glass I have no concern for oxygen getting through if it sits for a while. I also have a handle on most of my carboys. As long as you have a hand on a handle and another supporting weight you should be OK. I have broken one carboy and it was one without a handle. No injuries happened and it had water in it not beer. I have had zero infections over 8 years of brewing, but I would not attribute that to the fermenting vessel. Just strong cleaning and sanitizing practices.
I am considering starting to use one of my brewing kegs as a fermenter. I have seen more people doing this. I plan to clean my mashtun during the boil including the weldless fittings and then sanitize it by boiling water inside it. The heat sanitation should take care of any bacteria in the hard to clean crevices. I have seen more and more homebrewers doing this. My motivation for this is the ability to ferment 10 gallons in one vessel so it fits in my fermenting fridge, easier to clean through the top versus my carboys, pitch one container of yeast instead of eyeballing a split starter in to two carboys, and stainless keeps out the oxygen. It also doesn’t cost me anything. I would love a conical fermenter but they are not cheap.
I am a glass guy. I like to watch the yeast do their thing and so do my kids. They call the yeast my little pets. I also get busy and tend to leave things in the fermenter longer than I would like sometimes. Using glass I have no concern for oxygen getting through if it sits for a while. I also have a handle on most of my carboys. As long as you have a hand on a handle and another supporting weight you should be OK. I have broken one carboy and it was one without a handle. No injuries happened and it had water in it not beer. I have had zero infections over 8 years of brewing, but I would not attribute that to the fermenting vessel. Just strong cleaning and sanitizing practices.
I am considering starting to use one of my brewing kegs as a fermenter. I have seen more people doing this. I plan to clean my mashtun during the boil including the weldless fittings and then sanitize it by boiling water inside it. The heat sanitation should take care of any bacteria in the hard to clean crevices. I have seen more and more homebrewers doing this. My motivation for this is the ability to ferment 10 gallons in one vessel so it fits in my fermenting fridge, easier to clean through the top versus my carboys, pitch one container of yeast instead of eyeballing a split starter in to two carboys, and stainless keeps out the oxygen. It also doesn’t cost me anything. I would love a conical fermenter but they are not cheap.
Matt Franklin
Slappy Brewing North
On Tap:
American IPA
Strata Hazy IPA
Dr. Lee Orval
American Strong Ale
Friend of the Devil Belgian Golden Strong
Imperial Stout
Slappy Brewing North
On Tap:
American IPA
Strata Hazy IPA
Dr. Lee Orval
American Strong Ale
Friend of the Devil Belgian Golden Strong
Imperial Stout
You'll definitely find a diversity of opinion on homebrewing equipment and methodology. I described how I would build my homebrewing system if I were starting again. (I'd also add some sort of wort chiller as soon as I could.)
You can absolutely make great beer fermenting in plastic buckets, and they are an inexpensive option. Occasionally, brownbeard makes some.
You can absolutely make great beer fermenting in plastic buckets, and they are an inexpensive option. Occasionally, brownbeard makes some.
Welcome to the Beer Nuts Boards!
I too bought the kit from Midwest and have been happy with it. I'd really recommend going with the "Brewing Starter Kit with Better Bottle" though. It's only $20 more and includes an auto siphon essentially for free since the Better Bottles are $20.
I too bought the kit from Midwest and have been happy with it. I'd really recommend going with the "Brewing Starter Kit with Better Bottle" though. It's only $20 more and includes an auto siphon essentially for free since the Better Bottles are $20.
Randy Carris
Randy All the Time Brewing
Randy All the Time Brewing
Randy,
You're right about the autosiphon, I thought the racking cane in the basic kit was an auotsiphon (gotta have the autosiphon). I'd prefer the six gallon better bottle to the five.
For primary fermentation, you need the headspace of the 6 gallon better bottle. Maybe if you called 'em they'd switch to the 6 gallon for the $2 difference in price between the 5 and the 6.
You're right about the autosiphon, I thought the racking cane in the basic kit was an auotsiphon (gotta have the autosiphon). I'd prefer the six gallon better bottle to the five.
For primary fermentation, you need the headspace of the 6 gallon better bottle. Maybe if you called 'em they'd switch to the 6 gallon for the $2 difference in price between the 5 and the 6.
-
brownbeard
- Posts: 1236
- Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:10 am
- Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Welcome! I second the invitation to join us at next week's meeting at Randy's house. See the post in the Meetings section for directions. Club meetings are normally 3rd Thursdays of the month at 7 pm.
I'm a glass guy, too. While cautious about breakage, I'm not super paranoid about it. Just get a good carrier or handles, like Matt said. Be cautious - dry hands, 2 handed good grip, and go slow. I'm usually more worried about dropping bottles than carboys when they're being cleaned. One bit of caution. Some sanitizer solutions are awful slippery.
Search the forum for a post earlier this year when Randy first joined. He asked a lot of similar questions about what were the "essentials" in equipment. There was a lot of good input from the members on things like wort chillers, auto siphons, etc. Some gadgets are great time/work savers, others not so much. That's the beauty of the Club, most of us have used/tried just about all of them and can give good feedback.
Hope to see you at a meeting soon!
I'm a glass guy, too. While cautious about breakage, I'm not super paranoid about it. Just get a good carrier or handles, like Matt said. Be cautious - dry hands, 2 handed good grip, and go slow. I'm usually more worried about dropping bottles than carboys when they're being cleaned. One bit of caution. Some sanitizer solutions are awful slippery.
Search the forum for a post earlier this year when Randy first joined. He asked a lot of similar questions about what were the "essentials" in equipment. There was a lot of good input from the members on things like wort chillers, auto siphons, etc. Some gadgets are great time/work savers, others not so much. That's the beauty of the Club, most of us have used/tried just about all of them and can give good feedback.
Hope to see you at a meeting soon!
A Mighty Wind's A Brewing
“Life is short - break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love truly, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that made you smile” ― Mae West
“Life is short - break the rules, forgive quickly, kiss slowly, love truly, laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that made you smile” ― Mae West
just how dangerous/unhealthy is this?
I like the buckets the best too Tim, I hate trying to clean carboys so if don’t clean them very well then I’m not any better off than the buckets. Just wish the buckets didn’t go up in price so much over the past couple of years or else I need to find a new supplier. I used to throw or repurpose a brew bucket quite frequently due to the cost being so low, but now I try to get a little more mileage out of them. I do lots of cider and the acidy seems to be pretty hard on the buckets. I just put buckets on my xmas and bday every year… its like socks… can’t seem to have enough of them.
Sam, you coming out to a meeting? You can get a lot more questions answered in person.
From: brownbeard [mailto:brew-equipment@crbeernuts.org]
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 10:40 AM
To: brew-equipment@crbeernuts.org
Subject: Re: just how dangerous/unhealthy is this?
Derek wrote:
You can absolutely make great beer fermenting in plastic buckets, and they are an inexpensive option. Occasionally, brownbeard makes some.
I'm not sure my lack of brewing talent should smudge the reputation of plastic as a material.
You can't get with this with a bad hip - Matt
Post generated using Mail2Forum (http://www.mail2forum.com)
Sam, you coming out to a meeting? You can get a lot more questions answered in person.
From: brownbeard [mailto:brew-equipment@crbeernuts.org]
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 10:40 AM
To: brew-equipment@crbeernuts.org
Subject: Re: just how dangerous/unhealthy is this?
Derek wrote:
You can absolutely make great beer fermenting in plastic buckets, and they are an inexpensive option. Occasionally, brownbeard makes some.
I'm not sure my lack of brewing talent should smudge the reputation of plastic as a material.
You can't get with this with a bad hip - Matt
Post generated using Mail2Forum (http://www.mail2forum.com)
Travis (big T)
X-Prez Nut
X-Prez Nut
hey, thanks for all of the great responses! I would love to come out to the meeting this month, but unfortunately, I have to work Thursday night. Fortunately, I don't work every Thursday night, so hopefully I'll be able to make it to one in the next couple of months. Meanwhile, my wife and I are feverishly drinking bottled beer so we have enough bottles for the first batch (I mean it just seems lazy to buy empty bottles - I am more than willing to go to the extra work of emptying them myself!)
Please remember that we are a beer club, you need empties, invite this gang over, they can make enough empties for you in one night.sam,rn wrote:hey, thanks for all of the great responses! I would love to come out to the meeting this month, but unfortunately, I have to work Thursday night. Fortunately, I don't work every Thursday night, so hopefully I'll be able to make it to one in the next couple of months. Meanwhile, my wife and I are feverishly drinking bottled beer so we have enough bottles for the first batch (I mean it just seems lazy to buy empty bottles - I am more than willing to go to the extra work of emptying them myself!)