Cedar Rapids Brewing Society

In preparation of my favorite holiday, I would like to brew this. Can I get feedback on this recipe? This is my second all grain brew, so if you can see anything that isn't cut and dry, please share your secrets:
• For 5 gallons (18.93 L)
• Fermentables
• 3.5 lb. (1.6 kg) Pilsner malt
• 3.5 lb. (1.6 kg) Munich malt
• 4 lb. (1.8 kg) Vienna malt
• 1 lb. (0.5 kg) aromatic Munich 20° L malt
• 0.33 lb. (150 g) CaraVienne malt
• Hops
• 1.0 oz. (28 g) German Tradition pellet hops, 6% a.a. (60 min)
• 1.0 oz. (28 g) German Tettnanger pellet hops, 4% a.a (20 min)
• Yeast
• German lager yeast with sufficient yeast starter (465 billion cells)
• Misc.
• 0.75 tsp. (3 g) Irish moss added 15 minutes before end of the boil (optional)
• Recommended water profile, PPM (optional):
• Ca: 75–125
• Mg: 10
• Total alkalinity: 100–150
• SO4: 50–100
• Cl: 100–150
• RA: 0–50
SPECIFICATIONS
• Original Gravity: 1.055 (13.6° P)
• Final Gravity: 1.013 (3.3° P)
• ABV: 5.6%
• IBU: 27
• SRM: 9
• Boil Time: 60 minutes
• Pre-boil Volume: 7 gal. (26.5 L)
• Pre-boil Gravity: 1.048 (11.9° P)
DIRECTIONS
• Mash in at 129° F (54° C) for 5 minutes.
• Ramp to 150° F (63° C) and hold for 30 minutes.
• Run a single decoction mash: remove 40% of the grain and heat it separately to 158–162° F (70–72° C) for 15 minutes, then bring to a boil for 5–10 minutes and return to the mash.
• Mash out at 167° F (75° C) for 5–10 minutes.
• Bring to a rolling boil for 60 minutes, adding hops at specified intervals from end of boil.
• Ferment in primary for 14–20 days at 52° F (11° C).
• Hold a diacetyl rest for three days at 57–59° F (14–15° C).
• Gradually lower to 48° F (9° C) and hold for 8 days.
• Gradually lower to 33° F (1° C) and hold another 16 days.
• Keg at 2.5 volumes 5 (g/L) of CO₂ or bottle condition with 4 oz. (113 g) corn sugar.
 
I would like to make 10 gallons. Unfortunately, my two fermenters are being used for last Sunday's activities, so I will be using 2 carboys. I was planning on just multiplying everything by 2.

Looks more like a darker traditional Marzen than the more common Festbier being produced for Oktoberfest these days.

Personally, I would drop the aromatic and make it up elsewhere, but that's just me.

- Josh Peanasky

What would you make it up with?

Looks good to me. Pretty close to my "award winning" Marzen, which was based in turn on an AHA gold medal beer. So as pointed out by Josh it depends on which end of the range you want to be on.

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Overall, the recipe and process is solid. With today's modern malts, you might not need the protein rest, but it can only help and will not hurt your brew. Commercially, they will mash in at 138-140 to "to degrade various gums in the malt"..."This rest is not essential, but it generally will lead to a better run-off during the sparge." - from Marzen-Oktoberfest Vienna of the Classic Beer Style Series.

The key to a making a nice lager beer will be temperature control. Do you have the capability to control the fermentation temperatures?

There is a thread on this forum that talks about fast fermenting of lagers....this should get you started...http://www.crbeernuts.org/phpBB3/viewto ... =10&t=3528

I have done a total of one lager. I pitched my yeast at a higher temperature, as per the instructions with the yeast...and once fermentation started, I transferred to my fermentation chamber and began the process essentially spelled out in this post.

It turned out really nice.....hope to repeat those results with a 10 gallon batch in a few weeks.

Good luck.

MSattler wrote:What would you make it up with?

I would move half a pound to the CaraVienne, and split the other half between Pilsner and Munich

I have a second fridge I was planning on using. It is nothing fancy. But I believe it should get the temperatures

jjpeanasky wrote:

MSattler wrote:What would you make it up with?

I would move half a pound to the CaraVienne, and split the other half between Pilsner and Munich

And would that keep the color and darker characteristics? Would this taste similar to the Millstream Oktoberfest, or the Haufsbrauhause Oktoberfest? Also, would the Pilsen malt be similar to the Pilsner malt? I am putting together a shopping list for the BIY store, and it says they're out of Pilsner on their website.

MSattler wrote:

jjpeanasky wrote:

MSattler wrote:What would you make it up with?

I would move half a pound to the CaraVienne, and split the other half between Pilsner and Munich

And would that keep the color and darker characteristics? Would this taste similar to the Millstream Oktoberfest, or the Haufsbrauhause Oktoberfest? Also, would the Pilsen malt be similar to the Pilsner malt? I am putting together a shopping list for the BIY store, and it says they're out of Pilsner on their website.

It would be a touch lighter. Again, just my personal preference. Pilsen is just another way saying pilsner malt. It varies from malthouse to malthouse.

- Josh Peanasky

Well it was a late night, but I got this one done. I had to toss out another gallon in a half/2 gallons because there was a lot of sediment in the bottom. This is getting old. I bought the brew bag, but it was meant for the igloo cooler, so I am going to try and find a rectangle one. I was half tempted just to get as much of the wort as I could (within reason of course. Not the heavy sediment, this was all suspended), and deal with it when it was time to rack. I didn't do that though. Since it was about 2300, I pitched the yeasts at the 75 range, threw them in the fridge at 55 and called it a night. I figured that it would take several hours for the temperature of the wort to drop. I woke up this morning, and there is 0 activity. At what point should I be concerned? The BIY store did not have two of the wyeast Oktoberfest yeast packs, so I tried two different kinds.

Pitching at 75 degrees should not kill the yeast. So, that would not have created a problem.

Lag time can be up to 24 hours, and if your sanitization is good, you should have no concerns with the chilled wort sitting that long.

But, what you should check is estimating the pitch rate of the yeast. Pitch rate is the number of active yeast cells per unit volume per unit of dissolved sugars (e.g. cells per litre per degree Plato). For Marzen you should be pitching at least 1.5 billion cells per litre per degree Plato. For your 10-gallon batch of Marzen that will be about 800 billion active cells.

Do an internet search for 'yeast pitch rate calculator.' Brewers Friend and MrMalty have good ones. Then use the calculators to estimate how many cells each of the two packages contributed to the total pitch.

Pitching the proper number of active yeast cells will help you avoid long lag times and reduce the stress on the yeast. And, that will improve your beer.

Happy brewing!

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Thank you for the reply Karl. I did read the package, which said to pitch around 70*, while the recipe said 55*. I am sure this is an often debated topic... Trust the brewer or the yeast manufacturer. Each package was 1 billion cells (I had to split the 10 gal between two carboys). My SG was pretty high (1.072) and should've been 1.055. I got about 9 gallons total, so it makes sense that the sg calculators say that I am 1.1 gallons shy to get my target SG. Would it be a bad move to use this opportunity to add the proper amounts of water over lunch to the carboys?

Prior to fermentation is fine for adding water to correct the OG. In fact, many extract brewers use a partial-volume boil. Basically, that's a fancy term for boiling and chilling, for example, only 3 gallons of wort and then adding water to get to a five gallon batch. There are disadvantages to this approach, but it gets a five-gallon batch down to a boil volume that can be attempted on typical stovetop. When I started brewing I used this technique. The disadvantages primarily have to do with the chemistry and processes in the boil itself; you should have no discernable degradation by adding water now.

But, what you have now is basically an Imperial Octoberfest, sort of like the style of Lion Bridge Octobot 3000. What you might do is make an exBEERiment and dilute the contents of one of the fermentors to get close to the target OG and leave the other one as an Imperial Octoberfest.

But, I think you probably have an issue with the quantity of yeast cells pitched. If you used two packs of yeast, at best you have 200 billion cells (and that's if you pitched the yeast the same day they were packaged in the factory). And, based on the volume and gravity of your beer you should have more like 800 billion cells. This low pitch rate will cause a longer lag time and likely stress on the yeast cells which can cause some off flavors. Perhaps your pitching at a higher temperature actually helped incubate the yeast a bit and get them reproducing at a faster rate. But, it's best to be a yeast rancher and build up a yeast starter from the pack(s) purchased to get to the target pitch rate. This is a good technique to learn. Hopefully when you get home you'll find that obvious signs of fermentation have begun and you will not need to think about re-pitching.

And, quoting Charlie Papazian, "Relax. Don't worry. Have a homebrew."

I am glad that you had said that there is no discernible degradation now, since I decided to risk it! I know the SG is going to be off because the wort is now cold, but I added the water that the calculator said to (.6 and .5 respectively). I guess I will just have to hope for the best. On a more positive note, the color is now more of a beautiful ruby color, instead of a very dark red, which is what I like (like a dark Irish Red).

Here's the yeast that I used. WLP 830 German Lager https://www.biyhomebrewsupply.com/produ ... =480621285 and I believe it was this one (last packet they had left) Wyeast 2633 Oktoberfest Lager Blend https://www.biyhomebrewsupply.com/produ ... lagerblend. I checked the temperature of the fridge when I added more water, and it was at 60 which I am hoping will kick the yeast into starting their job. Since this recipe was broken into two 5 gallon carboys, with 2 different yeasts, would you still recommend 800 billion each? I stopped at the BIY store in Marion, but they were closed, so I will have to wait until Wednesday to get more yeast. I am hoping that if there was a yeast massacre, that my sanitation was decent enough to survive.

The wife and I LOVE to go to estate sales, and I just bought one of his books from the late 80s/early 90s. I was amazed at how well the ammonia method he recommended removes labels. It always cracked me up that after each step Charlie Papazian said "have a home brew."

That's 800 billion for the total.

The method for getting the total number of cells is pitch rate times volume times SG. Do this for each fermenter if the volume is different. For example if the fermenter has 5 gallons of wort and the SG is 1.057 and the target pitch rate is 1.5 billion cells per litre per degree Plato, then the number of cells (converting litres to gallons and degrees Plato to SG) should be 399 billion cells.

The handy calculator at https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pit ... alculator/ will do all the math for you.

You'll note that, hey 399 billion cells is four packages! That's why it's recommended to do starter cultures to build up the cell count from a single package of yeast.

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